Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 12:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

A deacon assists the minister and/or pastor....and ranks under the minister/pastor.

Time to take back the church!

Posted by justmyopinior (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 5:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If "paying a tithe" is the primary qualification to be a member of this church, make it a social club. I wouldn't think God cares about a tithe if "church members" don't love Him and others before self!

Posted by writing4him (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 5:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I totally agree with "justmyopinion"

That building means nothing..absolutely nothing. We are the church of the Living God! This is a disgrace!

Posted by southalabama (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 6:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is a common unscriptural practice in Baptist churches for deacons to usurp authority over the pastor and the congregation. Deacons are to be men who bring calm to the church, not chaos. Shame on these wayward deacons.

Where in the Bible will one find the concept of membership being determined by whether one pays a tithe or not? Churches need the tithes and offerings of their membership in order to carry on their work, but since when did tithes and offerings become prerequisites for membership and the privilege to vote?

The deacons who have caused this problem need to be removed from their role as deacons.

Posted by OldTimer (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think the deacons need to read Romans 12:3. We see it over and
over where people in positions of authority get full of themselves and let their power go to their heads. It happens in the workplace,
government, sports, and churches(basically everywhere). To me, it is especially disturbing to see it happen in the church.

Posted by turtle (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 8:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not surprised. Unfortunately it has been my experience in most churches (not all but most) of different denominations that the ones who give the most money, or "tithes", are the ones with the say so in the church and when it is questioned they say "because it is my money keeping this place up".

When churches stopped being about worship and started being businesses is when things like this began to happen. This isn't new. You see things like this on the news all the time where churches are in court with members battling.

Posted by OldTimer (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 8:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Once again, I agree with you Turtle. There is nothing wrong with a
will to lead, but it must be done as a messenger of the Lord and as a voice for the congregation.(not your own). We should walk humble.

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is VERY sad to see a judge having to rule to settle a conflict within a church/congregation no matter what religious affiliation it is. It is a "house of God".

The Bible states that Jesus "poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables"....when he found merchants selling and making money from their goods in the temple.

I would like to know this....

If someone cannot pay the "tithe"....are they then denied entrance to the church and denied being able to worship within that church?

Posted by yourstruly (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

In the Missionary Baptist Church the majority rules and the Pastor's role is to prepare his sermon, deliver his sermon and to save souls. He has nothing to do with the financial obligations of the church. The Deacons job is to run the day to day operations of the church. Of course, the Pastors have taken over the churches now. The Pastors assign themselves the job of treasurer. They have their wives as the financial secretaries. They have their daughters as the assistant financial secretary. Members have no say now in the church. We just have to pray that God will turn the churches back over to the members.

Posted by OldTimer (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree Bamabunny. I often wonder what the Lord thinks about some of the deeds that go on in the church supposedly in his name.

Posted by youngster (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 10:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think this whole ordeal is just ridiculous, specifically when one family is allowed to take-over an entire church. However, I believe that this particular church's congregation is at fault to as it took them far too long to get up enough courage to fight to dismiss these outrageous deacons, grandfather and grandson, from their duties. And from my understanding, one of the daughters of the grandfather was the secretary of the church, who was also helping them in their scandal, in an effort to try to hide their attempt to continue to embezzle money from the entire church and its members. The lesson to be learned here, for all churches, is that church officers, positions and/or auxiliaries should not be held by more than one relative of the same family. This only allows for this kind of disgrace among "so-called Christians." More than often, I hear that deacons, in general, continue to abuse their authority and totally show disrespect to pastors and the Lord's House, especially in African American Baptist Churches. They need to pray, ask and seek guidance from God.

I send many praises to those individuals who had enough courage to take a stand and do what is right and pleasing to God in this situation. And may God forever have mercy on these deacons and their families.

Posted by grannybear (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It seems we need to put GOD back in charge !! Man has taken God out of everything, even church and until he is put back in charge there will be conflict and turmoil in our church, life, family or whatever we undertake

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Pastor is in charge of preserving the integrity of the Church and congregation and doing so in favor of the Lord.

I am sure that there are many many honest and forthright deacons that do a wonderful job assisting the Pastors of their Churches....including the handling of all monies...and there are some that abuse their position as it appears in this scenario.

Last time I checked it was an honorable position being a "deacon". That does not give a deacon the right to take charge of the Church he represents....and take total charge of the money given to that Church...whether it be a donation or a "tithe".

I'm certain that every Church that has a deacon follows guidlines set forth by the Pastor....or the Churchs' denominational higher archy.

As long as I can remember a "deacon" is there to assist the Pastor...not to take total charge and bend the rules.

Do these deacons also pay a "tithe"? Or are they self exempt?

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Exactly my thoughts too OldTimer.

Posted by thor (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 11:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

When to Holy Spirit feels unwelcome in a church, he won't go in. When that happens, the spiritual vacuum is often filled by Satan. I wonder if that is the case with this church? I pray not.

Posted by pikecountyboy (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

From talking to a pastor in a A.M.E their tithes are auto deposited in the churches account at 10% of your paycheck deposit

Posted by yourstruly (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What the public doesn't know about this situation is that there were people that came into this congregation without being an active member just to vote and the majority rules. An active member is classified as paying ANY amount of money within a 3-month period. These unactive members had paid not a dime at any time but were brought in to cast their vote. In order to cast a vote you MUST be an active member. Hooray for the Deacons!

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 12:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Most of us believe in the same God...but worship a bit differently. That puts our Churches in the category of individual affiliations...and separate Churches.

With in-active members that have not paid in this Church...why then is their vote counted?

Almost sounds like the District 6 controversy.

Posted by OldTimer (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I've never seen a church where being an active member is determined by whether you pay tithes or not. True, being an active
member, you will pay your tithes. But what if someone loses their
job or becomes ill? Are you saying they can no longer vote as an
active member if they were unable to pay their tithes in the last
3 months? I would think it would be incumbent on the deacons to
keep an active voting list and not allow anyone who isn't eligible to vote in church matters. If someone is unable to pay their tithes
for something beyond their control, then they shouldn't be struck
from the list. Likewise, someone shouldn't be on the list who
hasn't went through the proper procedures to become a member. Open records for the members should be made available at request(including valid membership and church financial records).

Posted by tugrad (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It could be possible that the inactive members didn't want to continue to pay money to support Deacon Batie and his family. The 15 active paying members were probably The Batie family. I'm sure those inactive members that appeared in court to cast a vote has an interest in the well being of Mt. Pleasant Church because if not there are dozens of local churches that the members can worship with. Maybe the church should be named Batie Family Baptist Church. Deacon Batie has always been in control of the Mt Pleasant Church its either his way or no way, that's not fair to the members, I'm proud that they finally stood up to him. I would be ashamed to say I've been a deacon for 67 years and he acts like some individual that doesn't know the Lord. He will reap what he sow. I feel sorry for the deacons that has had him to look up to maybe that's why his grandson is supporting him.

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What the Bible consistently teaches is that elders and deacons should be Godly men who are above reproach....and deacons answer to the Pastor.

The word "deacon" itself means "servant"....and he/she serves the Church....the congregation and most importantly God.

I cannot imagine any Church not allowing someone to attend and/or join that cannot pay a 10% tithe.

Posted by sayit (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My prayer for the Deacons that they will get their house in order. God will have the final say in this whole matter. As a former member of this church I am sadden and glad that light has been shed on this self-appointed dictatorship over the chruch by one family. My prayer is that this will be worked out and not damage the role and the position of the church in the community. The church should be a light in the community and beacon of hope for all to come and worship in peace. Deacons are to be people who are not two-faced or double-tongued. They are consistent and stable. They are not to be people who have addictions which dictate their lives, they must believe in Christ and practice life with Him, all the while being okay that they do not know everything there is to know. Deacons must be respectful and loving fathers and husbands, good stewards of their finances, have a good hold on their tongues, and are level-headed. Their spouses (if they have one) should be godly individuals who practice the same characteristics. This paraphrasing the bible 1st Timothy 3

Posted by sayit (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 2:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No where in the Bible do we see DEACONS in any position of leadership over the pastor as on a board, etc. that the pastor must answer to or seek permission from on any decision to be carried out! Many denominational churches have set up a deacon board or trustees as overseers over God's appointed OVERSEER...the Pastor! Anytime a committee or board set themselves in submission as Hebrews 13:7, 17 declares, these men involved are sinning and are in rebellion to the Word of God. Of course, if that Pastor's lifestyle is not proper and if he has strayed from the Word of God doctrinally, no believer is under obligation to follow that pastor. On the other hand, what a blessing results when a godly pastor has good, faithful men as deacons to assist him in the work of that local church...men who protect their pastor and encourage him and stand by him in difficult times. men he can count on when others are deserting him...these men will have a great reward in heaven as many souls will be saved in that local church ministry! Pastors can be more effective if their deacons are servants and prayer partners. A deacon is like a right arm, they stand with you and they can help make or break your ministry. Deacons must see themselves as servants. When they do their job effectively, the level of respect for deacons is raised. A deacon as should be servants is the biblical model. Jesus took on the role of servant and He raised the bar on servant hood. In some churches the deacons may have to do some “administrative work,” ministry must be at the forefront.
When deacons see their role as power brokers, it becomes disheartening to the pastor and the church. When a pastor knows the appointed deacons are praying for them, Pastors feel like you can tackle any issue because they know the deacons stand with them.
While the pastor is the “shepherd” of a congregation, the deacons are shepherd servants. Deacons and their pastor must work together, if they do, God’s blessing will be on the church and harmony will rule. Conflicts in church might be fewer if pastors and deacons had a healthy relationship. Pastors’ best lead by shepherding, the deacon will follow the shepherd if he is following The Shepherd

Posted by Virtuous (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

God's word clearly states that at the time of judgement, and the time will (has) come when all hidden things will be exposed...He will judge His church FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess what??????? IT'S JUDGEMENT TIME!!!!!!!!!!! CLEAN UP...!!!!!!!!!

Posted by dmscler (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 5:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm 59 years old. I was born and grew up in Linwood, Alabama. Mt. Pleasant was the first church I joined as a child. When my mother moved to Birmingham we joined a church by the name of Mt. Pleasant there. I've always had 2 church homes. I have fond memories at Mt. Pleasant where I attended with my grandmothers, grandfather, uncles, aunts, cousins, childhood friend, and even my mother's childhood friends. As children we were guided by our elders. We didn't hang outside we were in church on the front rows. The deacons and deaconess would lead the devotion and the old warriors for God would pray a prayer that would send a shiver up my spine. The deacons would come before the congregation and kneel down in front of a chair and pray. My toes would tingle and my heart would feel as if it would come out of my chest. The Holy Spirit would fill the room. I would cry tears of joy. My entire family is a member of Mt. Pleasant and has been for a very long time. Mr. Batie, I say mister because he does not deserve to be called a deacon by no means. Anyone that has been here on earth for almost a hundred years should look back over his or her life and take stock and realize that it’s not by their doing that they are still here, but by the grace of God. Mr. Batie and his whole family should fall to their knees before God and the entire congregation and ask for forgiveness and let God's church go forward. I pray for their souls that God will touch them to make their hearts tender for his namesake.

Teer

Posted by DarrylDavis (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I always heard as a man gets older he should be getting more wiser. Maybe that's no longer the case these days. I would be willing to bet this church is 5013c tax exempt with the IRS. If that is the fact then they are running their operation as a buisness. Sad thing that the courts have to be involved. Money makes folks do strange things.

Posted by truthteller (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 6:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The paying of tithes was part of the law covenant also called the Mosaic Law or law of Moses between God and natural Jews and proselytes (converts) of the nation of Israel. The purpose of the tithes was for the support of the Levite temple servants who did not receive a land allotment and no agricultural means to support themselves and their families and most importantly, to offer their own tithes to God's temple as all the Israelites were required to do.- Numbers 3:5-10; 18:20-32. The entire Law code which consisted of over 600 laws including the Ten Commandments was replaced by Jesus Christ through a superior Law he stated at Matthew 22:35-40 and which he validated with his sacrifice.- Romans 7:6; Colossians 2:14. Jesus taught that it is true love of God and neighbor that motivates us to do our imperfect best at not violating God's commandments. Since Jesus' death closed the door to the Mosaic Law and opened another to the Christian congregation, no one is scripturally obligated to live by the Mosaic Law. Christians are not commanded by God to pay the tithe today. The Apostle Paul was used by God to show that our support to the congregation is most pleasing to God when it is voluntary and from the heart.-2 Corinthians 9:6,7. These are only a few references to show that the Christian congregation should be supported financially by its members' desire to maintain order, decency and love not just for each other but also for all people with whom we are to share the good news of the kingdom that will soon cause the sanctification of God's name, Jehovah (Psalms 83:18; Matthew 6:9,10) and of his will that there will be happy, healthy people of all races living forever on earth without strife.-Psalms 37:9-11, 29; Revelation 7:9,13,14; Revelation 21:1-5; 22:1,2.

Posted by Blue_Sky (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 6:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WWJD?

Posted by FoX (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 9:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think the 5013c tax exemption is a sham and should be abolished.

"The divorce between Church and State ought to be absolute. It ought to be so absolute that no Church property anywhere, in any state or in the nation, should be exempt for equal taxation; for if you exempt the property of any church organization to that extent you impose a tax upon the whole community."
--President James Garfield

In the US non-profit organizations control $1.6 trillion in assets.

All tax exemption is a type of government subsidy. In the case of most churches the only people who benefit from them are members of the church. When I see mega churches being built and churches with book stores who are buying up land and multi-millionaire evangelists like Billy Graham, I don't see the charity there.

Hmm, maybe I can start some fake religion, declare myself the a bishop and have my home be the church so I don't have to pay property taxes and I itemize most of my purchases as donations to the church. I couldn't endorse any political candidate anymore, or at least I am not suppose to or I violate my exemption status, of course we know many churches do violate this law though. I think I can hear the Flying Spaghetti Monster calling me to preach his teaching right now. Maybe I can build an altar in the garage, between the lawn mower and table saw

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 10:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dmscler WOW!

You summed it up very well and I totally agree....and eloquently stated I might add.

Thank you.

Posted by OldSchoolPike3Worker (anonymous) on October 23, 2009 at 11:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

FoX, your point is not a new one. The problem with that church is the same problem that all churches face, sinful members. There has never been a church without them. Do you want to see more separation between church and state? Tell President Obama to stop preaching that people should covet their neighbor's health insurance policy. And tell him to stop preaching that it is immoral to not want to use taxes from unwilling or unborn tax payers to fund programs for people that don't pay anything. We will not have true separation of church and state in the federal government until lawmakers quit writing laws that take our freedoms based on their idea of morals. The fake religion already has a fake messiah. More and more people are expecting tax dollars to be the same as a tithe.

Posted by FoX (anonymous) on October 24, 2009 at 12:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

So abolish all taxes and laws? Is that what you are wanting OldSchoolPike3Worker?

Posted by grannybear (anonymous) on October 24, 2009 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

pray for guidence

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on October 24, 2009 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What goes around comes around in many many ways and I'm certain that soon the "over the line deacons" will discover that there is only one person in charge at Church...."God". <s>

Posted by takingitpersonal (anonymous) on October 26, 2009 at 5:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For 67 years, no one talked about the spiritual works and the physical labor that decan "Moses Batie" is doing ,and the community work for the church.The "Baite" family is not the only members there. Strong arms? They left, and took 4,000 dollars of the church's money and started their own church with the good reverun "L" .The members came back,without the good reverun, did a sit-in for 3 months,or so, now decide to go to court, the day decan batie was released from the hospital. He ws unable to attend court that day.

Posted by HeDied4UsAll (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Where is God in all of this? The Baties should have a chance to vindicate themselves as well as the Batie who I understand along with the preacher pushed this matter to court (case of throwing the rock and hiding your hand). The Bible teaches us that matters concerning christians should not enter into man's court, for God is the ultimate judge. This matter should have been settled among the members with prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. How could a pastor? let his congregation go so far as to settle God's affairs in man's court. I would not want his leadership in the church I attend. How could he bring his reputation into question as did the deacons, he is no better. This was not an act of the Holy Spirit but an act of the flesh. I also understand that the people that filed the suit are covenant breakers according to the promise to regularly attend and regularly give in the support of the ministry of this church.
As far as the alleged embezzlement, God said vengeance is His. Man cannot fight God's battle just be still and see the salvation of the Lord. We all have to give in account of our transgressions and people living in glass houses couldn't throw any stones. When it's all said and done the only thing that will come out of this is lost souls. I pray you for God's mercy in this matter and may He bless the members of this great church.

Posted by youngster (anonymous) on October 27, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

HeDied4UsAll "WHAT, are u SERIOUS?"

The Bible also teaches us to "Follow the law of the Land." Obviously, this is what has happen in this situation. From my understanding, this conflict has been going on, continuously, for over 10-15 years. Evidently, there are some praying soldiers in this church. This congregation has turned the "other cheek," far too long. As Christians, we should know that prayer changes things! PERHAPS, THIS JUDGMENT WAS FROM AND OF GOD. The pastor and the congregation of this church has obviously prayed, fasted and tried, repeatedly, to comprise with these evil perpetrators, as it took them too long to seek help from the law to help resolve this matter. I, personally, know some of these members, whose hearts are hurting, STILL, because of the drastic measures that they had to take just to seek what is rightfully theirs, a peaceful place of worship. As Christians, I know that this congregation took no joy in this judgment. However, they finally took the right stand in this situation and I believe that it is pleasing to GOD. I believe that some of the Batie's think that they are above GOD and the law of the land. I also believe that this congregation and it's Pastor, was not fighting against man but the evil spirits within them.

God loves us all and I'm sure that he will have mercy on all of us, even if this congregation and its Pastor was wrong, in their efforts, as No One Is Perfect. Sometimes when we just don’t know what to do, as Christians, we only know to trust and pray for guidance from God and do the best that we know how and pray for forgiveness when or if we are wrong. Believe it or not, but there are and probably will always be negative circumstances in which all of us will have to FOLLOW THE LAW OF THE LAND when dealing with people who, seemingly, have NO FEAR OF GOD!

Posted by duugone (anonymous) on November 3, 2009 at 8:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

both sides were wrong, if all it took was a vote and the majority should have voted the deacon to turn over the books and the other side took money and started another church why didn't they stay at their new church. trouble makers is what they are. All sides had keys to the church and excess to the books.They all lied in church and to the judge

Posted by HeDied4UsAll (anonymous) on November 10, 2009 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with you duugone. I understand that that preacher Lee stepped his feet back in that church after being gone for 7 months and his wife came with him. Are they desperate or what? I wonder if he is truly a man of God. He knows that this church is split all because of him and he continues to cause mayham. The more I learn about this man the more I beleive he is an antichrist. The members have always worked out their differences in th past and they can do so now without his interference or permission. Someone that has helped him along his way should tell him he is way out of the will of God by doing what he is doing in that church. He might think he is helping but he is harming. He needs prayer and needs it now. He is an embrassment and a ridicule to the pastors that hold God true. It's not going to get any better for him if he stays. I hope and pray that he finds his way before things get worse for him.