Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 12:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sad that 2 immature people caused their fraternity shame and suspension of the entire frat.

Another reason for the university to build more dorms ON campus so they can be more easily supervised.

I still think that the entire frat should no be punished because 2 individuals got into an altercation. They do though need to be arrested.

Posted by sexybamagirl36081 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 12:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The whole frat. s being punished because they as a whole did not step in to help stop the arguement from this sort of incident. As for the two frat. brothers that are involved, may god be with them as they need him more then the rest of the frat.

Posted by Simpson (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 2:30 a.m.

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Posted by Lionhearted1 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 9:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This article will obviously make front page news here at the Messenger, probably as it should. The comments will come flooding in. A disgruntled woman will file a lawsuit because she is being disturbed by music being played too loud. It receives no less than 5 prominently placed articles.

However, how many articles does the Messenger run about how much money Troy University Greek organizations raised over the past year for various charities (in excess of $50,000 in case you are curious)? How about how many community service hours were worked by members of the organizations at local facilities? These include places like Colley Senior Complex, Nobel Manner Nursing Home, Big Brother/Big Sister programs, Relay for Life and list could go on and on(these hours exceeded 25,000 if you are keeping score at home). Grade point averages for Greek men and women on Troy's campus are higher than their non-greek counterparts.

I am not oblivious to the fact that "feel-good" stories dont sell newspapers. Stabbings and potential lawsuits do. I just dont think it would be too much to ask to counter every 10 negative articles about Greeks with one or two highlighting some of the accomplishments for which these young men and women should be recognized.

And yes, I do believe the Messenger has been handed several of these type stories to run and have either chosen not too or buried so far in the the Sunday paper as to never be noted. If they need more of these type stories, I am sure the administration at the University would be more than happy to provide ample information.

Posted by regis (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 9:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

So, Jack_Bauer, whadda ya think? More of "those drunk white college kids"? Oh wait...

Posted by Faith2006 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with Lionhearted. As a member of a sorority at Troy University, I have submitted articles about philanthropies that we hosted but they were never printed.

I am very upset about this stabbing and how it affects the entire Greek system. However, these were the actions of two misguided people. The fraternity should be reprimanded for not taking action to stop this altercation. Why does the article have to mention that they are one of the predominant "black" fraternities? Does it make a difference about their race?

Posted by regis (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Lionhearted: do a search for "fraternity" in the "Quick Search" at the top of this page. The Messenger has done a lot of positive articles about fraternities.

Posted by regis (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I never will forget the homecoming parade one year. When one of the fraternity floats came by (not gonna mention which one, but they were suspended until recently). I could actually smell liquor coming off the float. I swear to God. And this was 8:00 in the morning. Apparently the underage freshman had a good time at the frat house late into the night.

Of course, every college age kid drinks. But if you are gonna be representin' your frateranal organization at a public event, you might want to discourage this kind of thing lest people think their preconceived "Animal House" assumptions are correct.

Posted by TU08 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Academics is a choice being in a social buy your friends relationship is a choice to be or not to be. Good grades comes from studying, GOING TO CLASS, and making the right choices. It doesn't matter if you are in a frat or soro to make the grade it is up to the individual what they do with their education. And others beside the above mentioned groups raised money, do volunteer work, and tutor students, again I say it is up to the individual to be civic minded and to make the grade. Cudos to all who choose to make the right choice, Independents, frat members, and soro memebers.

Posted by Lionhearted1 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 10:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Regis,
Thank you for putting me on to this search information. I really think we need to look at some relevant date range to determine if this is the case. Saying that the Messenger did a positive article about fraternities in 2001 does not quite hold water. I put in January 1, 2006 to today and didnt get much feedback. Please let me know if there is a way to locate these type articles that might have been written in the latter part of this decade.

Thank you.

Posted by regis (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oops, sorry...make that "fraternal" organization not "frateranal"...(I don't even want to know what kind of organization that might be)

Posted by regis (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There a lot of organizations (churches, DHR, NCS, RC, SA, on and on and on) that constantly do a lot of great things for the community. The Messenger cannot possibly cover them all. But if there were a stabbing at one of the churches or if someone were suing the Salvation Army, it would make the front page every time.

And as far as reputation, those organizations are seen positively by the general public because, for instance, churches don't normally have members drunk riding on the First Baptist float in the home coming parade.

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 10:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It's still a shame that other frats are put in the same negative light by some because 2 members of one particular frat did what they did. Black or white should make no difference.

Sororities and Fraternities always do things for the community and those responsible for this particular altercation should take the entire blame and punishment.

The University always seems to be buying properties to house their needs. Why not build more dorms for students to live on campus with supervision...and cut down on underage drinking and unacceptable activites?

Posted by Lionhearted1 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Regis,
I dont think you are seeing my point. Yes, all of those organizations do great things, and through the snazzy search tool you put me onto I can find countless articles recognizing them for such work.

In the case of the Greek organizations, I can only find news of the negative nature. Those equally important "good-news" articles are no where to be found.

I am simply asking for consistantcy. We can not compare "the churches, DHR, NCS, RC, SA and on and on" because their is no negative news to be found. Maybe thats because nothing negative news worthy ever happens. I dont know.

Organizaton A- Only positive news reported. Is there negative news to be found If so, it should be reported.
Organization B- Only negative news reported. Is there positive news to be found? If so, it should be reported.

I am asking only that you compare apples to apples and demand fair and balanced reporting(thanks, Fox!) from our local fishwrap.

Now, I am not asking for the Messenger to go around and do a front page article everytime one of the fraternities builds a playground for an impoverished neighborhood. That would obvously be unreasonable. Just throw the kids a bone every once in a while instead of the constant broad brush beating they take everytime something like this happens.

Posted by Observer22 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 11:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"There's no story in a good boy."
I remember this quote from years ago when J. Edgar Hoover's little orange book was required reading in the public schools. The point is that most people (adults included) do right most of the time - that is not news. Another maxim, "virtue is its own reward" seems to have been completely lost. Individuals and organizations do something they simply ought to do and expect to be praised or rewarded.

Posted by Jack_Bauer (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

racist TU police.

Posted by regis (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 11:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have to give credit where credit is due. Let's face it, nearly all college kids drink to some extent. So at least fraternal organizations get those same young people involved in doing positive things for the community. Otherwise, they would probably do nothing but drink and go to sporting events and play video games on their time away from class.

But nothing is ever gonna change the frat reputation because you are always gonna have a few idiots and some bad calls. You guys could do twenty things for the community and people would say, "Huh? Whatever. Good for them." But you have one bad incident and every one says, "There you go. Typical frat behavior." And no matter what you do, that reputation is never going away.

Posted by Lionhearted1 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Observer22,
While I agree with much of what you are saying, I am left wondering is this method working for us?? Look at the state of our society. No need to depress you with details, the media does that for us. But by consistantly sensatializing the negative, are we perpetuatting the problem? Now dont get me wrong. News is news and needs to be reported. Maybe a stabbing at a fraternity meeting is indeed newsworthy. I will not argue that point.

But is really raising $50,000 for local charties really something they "ought to" or be "expected to" do. I would put coming to college in their "ought to" and "expected to" catagories. I am not so sure I would put raising this kind of money or doing this kind of community service as something that is a foregone conclusion of our 18-22 year olds.

Excluding those of you who were in the milatary and serving oversees for obvious reasons, but how many of you several hours a week to your local retirment home or to tutor special education when you were 18 years old. How many of you personally went out and raised thousands of dollars for disabled children. Maybe all of you did, and that is fantastic. But if you did not, did you not do what was expected of you or what you "ought to". As a matter of fact, how many of you do it today. Discount your church tithes because these individuals do this as well and this is not counted in these figures. But how many of you work your 40 hour week and go to church on Sunday and spend your Saturdays and nights at answering phones at the Rape Hotline or building homes for Habitat for Humanity. Again, all of you might but if not are you not doing whats expected of you?

I dont know, I struggle explaning this away as something these students should be "expected" to do because no matter what people want to argue on here, these type things are not activities the majority of college students spend much time doing. Whether or not they should is a question all by itself, but I would argue this much dedication to civic and community duties at such a young age should be recognized and commended.

Posted by OldSchoolPike3Worker (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 12:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe they should reconsider the stabbing routine in the step show.

Posted by Virtuous (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with those of who have said the entire fraternity shouldn't be punished.

I say this all the time...you never know what a person will do to you. I'm pretty sure that during this verbal altercation, the young man who was stabbed never thought the other young man (who did the stabbing) would do that.

What were the others suppose to do? I mean yes, they could've stepped in during the verbal altercation and tried to calm the situation down; and who's to say they didn't. Let's be realistic. Why would anybody in their right mind,other than law enforcement who are trained to intervene in those type situations, get involved in an altercation where there is a weapon (of any kind) being used? How many would be injured then? Nine times out of ten it would've likely been more than just the one.

Kids these days are punks...afraid to get beat up, especially in a crowd. When I was growing up and there was a fight - the fight was lick for lick. If you get beat up, you just get beat up. End of story. Now, weapons are the first line of defense and usually because of something petty.

Posted by Ramsey (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 12:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There are many activities that involve both fraternities and sororities that are very positive in nature and they ought to be covered! Take note Messenger; get off of your rears and get these articles in the paper. The paper has a responsibility to cover both "good" and "bad" news in Troy and Pike County!
As to this situation, the boys involved should be handled within the justice system regardless of what TU has chosen to do with them. The entire fraternity is accountable for the actions of their members at a fraternity function and they should have handled the situation before it became violent!

Posted by olerooster (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 1:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What is the rule now??? Used to be that two or three fraternity members at one place (house, bar, beach, etc.) constituted an official Fraternity event. I always thought that was a little out of whack.

Posted by southernhope (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It is my understanding that during the fight, the majority (if not all)of the fraternity were present. If this is the case, the whole group should be punished. I think we should focus on the fact that if someone would have intervened (or at least tried), these two young men might not be facing the long roads ahead. One in recovery and one in jail. Being a parent myself, I hope my son would help out his friends or at least try.

Posted by Virtuous (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Has there been anything said about the members of the fraternity who were present not trying to intervene or is it just speculation because a fight actually broke out? It's almost as if we want to say they were there encouraging them to fight. Now if that's the case, yes, they all should be punished. If not, these two young men should face charges on their own for "their" actions.

Posted by olerooster (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think that is what Dean Reeves was saying in the article:

Herb Reeves, dean of student services, said the fraternity faces punishment for not stepping in to help during the fight.

“It’s their lack of leadership and engagement when this incident occurred, and the lack of adult supervision at activities and meetings,” Reeves said.

Posted by Virtuous (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 2:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I read that part about not stepping in to help during the fight. I'm talking about before the fight actually broke out. It says they were arguing first.

Sorry if I'm wrong...it's one thing to do whatever you can to calm someone down during an arguement before it escalades. It's a totally different thing to come between two people fighting when there are weapons involved. They had to of done something, somehow. His injuries could have been fatal if no one would've stepped in.

Do these fraternity's have adult supervision assigned to them? I'm totally in the dark about these groups. I don't know how they work.

Posted by Jack_Bauer (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 3:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here is the truth about fraternities. Drunk, drugs, orgies, helping brothers cheat their way through school, secret gay ceremonies and a little charity work on the side to make it all better - also a stabbing here or there to keep the pledges in line.

Posted by OldSchoolPike3Worker (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 4:28 p.m.

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Posted by Jack_Bauer (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 4:34 p.m.

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Posted by uglydog65 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 5:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jack Bauer you may be right the head of TU police may be a racist, he did not seem that way to me. You do know that he is black, unless leadership has changed recently.

I just loved the movie "Animal House".

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 7:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For Virtuous

I'm with you. Why should the entire fraternity be punished because of 2 members that got into an altercation? Plus the fact that who knows what would have happened....or who else may have been hurt if others "stepped in" to break this up?

Posted by YEM (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 10:41 p.m.

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Posted by YEM (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 10:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe the other members didn't intervene because they didn't want to get stabbed!!!

Posted by YEM (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 10:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bad boys, bad boys, what chu gonna do, what chu gonna do when they come for YOOOOOUUUUU????

Posted by uglydog65 (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 6:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well at lease they did not use guns, maybe next time they will use fist instead of knives. I still have not heard of any arrest being made.

Posted by regis (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 7:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Not sure which Channel 52 commentator you are talking about since I don't get get/watch Channel 52, but who's to say he wasn't drunk?

And as far as what goes on at the country club, first off, they would never let me in there, so I'll never know what goes on. Second, what a bunch of old men do at a private club is their business.

I was talking about teenagers on a parade float at 8:00 on a Saturday morning literally stinking up a 50 foot radius. Kids along the route asking their parents, "Ewww-uh. Mommy, what is that smell?" So that's how you represent your organization at a community event with the whole town present? And then you wonder why people think frat guys are just a bunch of drunks?

Posted by muledeer (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 1:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It is clear that some of you writing comments on this have limited education and certainly no knowledge about a greek system at a University. Choose not to participate in a fraternity or sorority if you like, however don't make accusations on those who are in them. I was in a Fraternity at Troy University many years ago. I learned a great deal with regard to leadership responsibilities as well as bonding with individuals of different cultures. Many of the brothers I had in the fraternity remain very dear friends of mine to this day. Speak of your experienc and not of what you THINK the greek system is all about.
With regard to the knife fight, whether in a fraternity or not, it is a shame that people can no longer just burst up into a fist fight to settle a difference. Seems now that you come to expect either a knife or a gun. Message to all, don't carry a knife and you won't likely use it in a fight. Don't posses a gun and you won't likely pull the trigger out of anger. PERIOD !

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 7:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Valid points Muledeer

Posted by uglydog65 (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 8:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

muledeer I am glad you had a good experience with your fraternity. I had to work and go to school. We apparently travel in different groups. The people I know do not carry guns out of anger. They carry guns for hunting or out of fear of becoming victems. Years ago someone I had great respect for was robbed and drown in a bathtub. I wish I could have been there to save their life, if I had arrived there too late I hope I would have had the strength not to shoot them out of anger. I have fired a gun only on one occasion in the last two years, a rattle snake bit an animal of mine and it was not out of anger but fear that I shot the snake.

Posted by uglydog65 (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 8:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh there have been times I wanted to shoot this computer.

Posted by regis (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 9:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No I was not in a fraternity in college, so I do not know the insights of college fraternal knowledge. But I was a soldier in the 7th Infantry Division a long time ago...I realize that does not compare, but it is a similar brotherhood.

Trust me, I base my own opinions about fraternities on personal experience, not stereotypes and movies. I have had lots of personal incidents with frat boys other than just smelling them at parades. There have been plenty who have lived illegally in rental houses on my street; four and five "brothers" in the same house. You guys should worship this town. Because they will allow anybody to live anywhere regardless of the zoning laws. I have had to call the cops more times than I can remember because of parties at 3:00 in the morning where your precious fraternal bros were drunk, screaming and fighting including having fights in my own yard! So spare me the holier than thou fraternal order of the BS.

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on March 20, 2009 at 10:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I do believe that renting a house to college students does open a flood gate of problems for existing neighbors. When the cats (parents and adults) are away....the mice will play. There is no adult supervision in these rentals and things can get out of hand and serious problems arise from drinking...possible drug activity and underage drinking to exactly what occurred in this article. These problems do harm to the reputation of the fraternity....to other fraternities...to the alumni and schools.

This is why I strongly feel that there should be more dorms to house students ON campus with adult supervision.

I still do not see the purpose of suspending the entire fraternity because 2 individuals got into a serious altercation....and why other frat brothers are blamed for not "stepping in" to help when this became life threatening.

If others did step in to help....there could have been more injured victims.

I still feel that the 2 that fought should be arrested and charged...on or off campus...a serious crime has been committed.

Posted by Virtuous (anonymous) on March 20, 2009 at 1:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I couldn't agree more, Bamabunny. I couldn't agree more.

However, I honestly believe there are more students who would rather stay off campus versus those who don't mind staying on campus because they DON'T want to be supervised.

Posted by YEM (anonymous) on March 20, 2009 at 5:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

People would rather stay off campus, because you have more space. Would you like to share a house about the size of a living room with another person? No.

Posted by regis (anonymous) on March 20, 2009 at 10:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh my God, life is sooooo hard. When I was 20 years old in the Army, I shared a room with another person the size of a small bedroom FOR THREE YEARS. And those were the best years of my life! So GMAFB! God you act like kids can't handle ANYTHING and shouldn't be required to handle anything. What world do you live in? Obama-land?

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on March 20, 2009 at 11:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

TY Virtuous....

Personally I would not want to live next door or close to a house being rented to students. 2 may be on the lease but it usually winds up with perhaps many more living there or just "crashing" there.

Living off campus simply means "no adult supervision". Living on campus means abiding by the rules and subject to discipline when the rules are broken.

For many kids "college" is spelled "P A R T Y".

For many years students have shared a dorm room and many say those years were the best.

Posted by YEM (anonymous) on March 21, 2009 at 4:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I didn't say that they couldn't live in a dorm, nor did I say it was horrible to do so. I just stated the obvious reason why people prefer off-campus housing. The lack of supervision is another reason. Is there something you can do about people that are illegally renting to college students? I would hate to live in a house next to loud party kids, too. Especially if there were kids fighting in my yard.

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on March 21, 2009 at 7:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There are always loops holes YEM that people find to get around the law for the almighty buck. Where there's a will there's a way.

By the way...I spoke to someone very reliable today that told me this altercation did indeed happen ON campus.

Posted by missro007 (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

To make situations such as this stabbing a little less likely to occur again, I think students should not be allowed to live off-campus until the beginning of their junior year because by then they will have acquired a bit of adult maturity about themselves. Young hormones running wild always think fighting is the best way to handle their disputes, but as they mature I feel they may think twice before resorting to stabbing and shooting

Posted by Bamabunny (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 10:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

For missro007

Excellent idea. No off campus living until the junior and senior year.

There could be a problem though causing a "rights" issue. Their right to live where they want.

I suppose there could be a school contract that is either accepted or rejected upon admission with parents being made responsible for any mishaps off campus...and that the university would not be liable for anything done off campus.